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  #241   IP: 86.132.10.12
Old 12-02-2018, 05:16 PM
pond digger pond digger is offline
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

So weíre saying thereís a £5k saving on the smallest model by going simple? If thatís what weíre talking about, then that ainít an insignificant sum to many. So if the buttons and pedal do the job, then why would anyone condemn anyone for going that route? That £5k could buy another item of plant that could give a much better return than the extra bells and whistles on a tilty.
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  #242   IP: 95.150.44.104
Old 12-02-2018, 05:27 PM
Eddiebackblade Eddiebackblade is offline
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

I really don’t give two of them!

If you can’t see what we are trying to say is that any reputable supplier wouldn’t dip the concept below a 4 pipe setup. My and just My, no gun to anyone’s head, opinion is that below this you are in a territory where with education you could see the benefits of the extra.
This is the bit nobody gets, so around again we go?

Nobody knows exactly how much a 4 pipe setup will cost against the buttons/pedal route until further down the line?
Why? Because of residual value and what you may choose to do next?

Buy the Pedal/Button for less, it may have low residual or not? Want to put it on your next machine that’s probably going to be 4 pipe and you may have to pay to upgrade it?

Buy a 4 pipe, fit another circuit to the machine and the bog basic control system it requires. Yes it costs more!! You get Auxiliary functions, you claim not to need them, you tried a Tilty and Grab in anger before making this claim? Why do you think most guys end up with some form of Grab, usually within weeks of purchase.
You get a Hydraulic Quick Hitch, no explanation of benefits required there!
Residual, come three years on there’s 100% guaranteed chance of more 4 pipe ready machines for you to choose from will see a ready market.
However choose to buy a 4 pipe machine next and you’re already sorted.

Lastly a used mini with the 4 pipes setup you had fitted will be more sought after and command a premium guaranteed to the Arb boys who are 4 pipe used machine mad!


If it’s not for you, it’s not for you, take the price difference at the start and happy days.
Aiden obviously seems confident that he is able to demonstrate this price difference in a way that clearly shows his clients that it’s worth taking a punt that 4 pipe is the way to go.
Engcon have chosen to offer great deals on the Pedal/Buttons route in the hope you come back for larger better specced at a later date, with a risk it simply spreads into larger machines.
I don’t know if anyone has called Pat Bulcock and asked if he will do Pedal/buttons or not?


Where the running your business with some finance, having exclusive agreements with clients, blowing smoke up your arse on social media, dictating to people, not sounding right, and just being a complete twat come into that I don’t know. No need to dress it up for me, been called worse by better men on here sadly gone, but were totally respected for it as they’d been in the game an awful long time.


UK, the only place the Ferrari Dealers still have a Cross ply Tyres box on the options sheet! Black, round, ok for 70mph, why wouldn’t you?


I’ll do my thing, everyone else can do exactly as they please, and when it comes to actually buying a Tilty Unit, of which so few of the loudest shouters on here actually do, I’ll be heading for the suppliers who are driving the concept forward.


Eddie.

Last edited by Eddiebackblade; 12-02-2018 at 05:29 PM.
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  #243   IP: 213.78.124.22
Old 12-02-2018, 05:40 PM
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EngconUK EngconUK is offline
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

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Originally Posted by pond digger View Post
Do we know the cost difference between the 4 piper and the basic set up (I may have missed it)? Because if we donít, then I donít see how anyone can be judgemental. Clearly there are people on here who are quite happy with buttons and peddles, and as much as they might like a Ďbetter systemí, thereís going to be extra cost involved, and the law of diminishing returns comes into play. Of course if you have a machine already fitted with 4 pipes and proportional rollers, then it would seem crazy not to make use of them.
We get this as a fairly regular question. On a new digger, adding a second proportional line as a manufacturer's option is a good way to go (and, as Eddie said earlier, many of them come with this as standard anyway). Then, you can opt for a plug-and-play basic tilt and rotate, with no aux services; or a simple latching switch to alternate between the tilt function and extra services. The difference varies according to the spec of the auxiliary valves and the size of tilty but with the extra installation involved it will add a couple of grand. Worth it for the extra services, usability and resale.

If you don't have that second circuit, then you have to go for the fully Monty (DC2 in our case). As Aiden says, the smallest one will set you back £10-£11k, but you will get many more options and a higher resale.

There is a big BUT here: If you have a mechanical link between the pedal and the valve chest the full Monty wont work because the control system needs to control the oil flow electronically.

So, you are into major expense to prep your digger before we can even start to fit your Tilty.

Our little option (I'm thinking of calling it Marmite, BTW) sidesteps this for the reasons outlined earlier.

regards

Robert
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  #244   IP: 81.151.174.184
Old 12-02-2018, 05:44 PM
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V8Druid V8Druid is offline
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

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Originally Posted by Eddiebackblade View Post
.....UK, the only place the Ferrari Dealers still have a Cross ply Tyres box on the options sheet! Black, round, ok for 70mph, why wouldnít you? Eddie.
I have got to remember that one ....... Class
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  #245   IP: 95.150.44.104
Old 12-02-2018, 05:47 PM
Eddiebackblade Eddiebackblade is offline
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

If you donít have the second circuit you can ring someone like Summit and simply fit it!
You donít have to go with DC2!
This pipework will cost yes, it will increase your residual value and desirability of your machine!

If youríre told youíre Mini canít run a Full Control System, ring John Craig, heís converted loads.



Eddie.
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  #246   IP: 81.151.174.184
Old 12-02-2018, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

Quote:
Originally Posted by pond digger View Post
So weíre saying thereís a £5k saving on the smallest model by going simple? If thatís what weíre talking about, then that ainít an insignificant sum to many. So if the buttons and pedal do the job, then why would anyone condemn anyone for going that route? That £5k could buy another item of plant that could give a much better return than the extra bells and whistles on a tilty.
Chris the deal is £6k inc. 3 buckets, plus the Vodka & Tonic, so £4k Boyo ... assuming Aiden's chucking in buckets too
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  #247   IP: 213.78.124.22
Old 12-02-2018, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddiebackblade View Post
If youríre told youíre Mini canít run a Full Control System, ring John Craig, heís converted loads.

Eddie.
In fairness, Eddie; I didn't say a mini couldn't run a full control system. What I actually said was that if there was a mechanical link then it would cost to convert it.

For the avoidance of doubt; the two hose full control system is the best option. A four pipe system is a good compromise. You don't believe there is a place for anything else and I do.

Your Ferrari analogy was very funny BTW (really..... ).

regards

Robert
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  #248   IP: 31.96.34.218
Old 12-02-2018, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

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Originally Posted by EngconUK View Post
In fairness, Eddie; I didn't say a mini couldn't run a full control system. What I actually said was that if there was a mechanical link then it would cost to convert it.

For the avoidance of doubt; the two hose full control system is the best option. A four pipe system is a good compromise. You don't believe there is a place for anything else and I do.

Your Ferrari analogy was very funny BTW (really..... ).

regards

Robert
To be fare Robert, if you can remember back to about 2 years ago myself and Eddie suggested to you that there should be a 4 pipe system to get people into a unit, something that will start them off in the right direction, and where "the range" came in. A unit to suit what you do, but also hold good money. And the reason for suggesting that was because at all the shows, the full system was always demonstrated and there was nothing for the first time buyer.
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  #249   IP: 31.96.34.218
Old 12-02-2018, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

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Originally Posted by MchaleBuildingServices View Post
Is it a case of the cheaper units are worrying the guys who have dropped tens of thousands on theirs, possibly having a bit more competition?
I don't think so, if they are unable to see the big picture of the difference between pedal/button combo and a 4 pipe, I'd quite comfortably say that we were on different pages all together.
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  #250   IP: 86.132.10.12
Old 12-02-2018, 06:57 PM
pond digger pond digger is offline
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddiebackblade View Post
I really donít give two of them!

If you canít see what we are trying to say is that any reputable supplier wouldnít dip the concept below a 4 pipe setup. My and just My, no gun to anyoneís head, opinion is that below this you are in a territory where with education you could see the benefits of the extra.
This is the bit nobody gets, so around again we go?

Nobody knows exactly how much a 4 pipe setup will cost against the buttons/pedal route until further down the line?
Why? Because of residual value and what you may choose to do next?

Buy the Pedal/Button for less, it may have low residual or not? Want to put it on your next machine thatís probably going to be 4 pipe and you may have to pay to upgrade it?

Buy a 4 pipe, fit another circuit to the machine and the bog basic control system it requires. Yes it costs more!! You get Auxiliary functions, you claim not to need them, you tried a Tilty and Grab in anger before making this claim? Why do you think most guys end up with some form of Grab, usually within weeks of purchase.
You get a Hydraulic Quick Hitch, no explanation of benefits required there!
Residual, come three years on thereís 100% guaranteed chance of more 4 pipe ready machines for you to choose from will see a ready market.
However choose to buy a 4 pipe machine next and youíre already sorted.

Lastly a used mini with the 4 pipes setup you had fitted will be more sought after and command a premium guaranteed to the Arb boys who are 4 pipe used machine mad!


If itís not for you, itís not for you, take the price difference at the start and happy days.
Aiden obviously seems confident that he is able to demonstrate this price difference in a way that clearly shows his clients that itís worth taking a punt that 4 pipe is the way to go.
Engcon have chosen to offer great deals on the Pedal/Buttons route in the hope you come back for larger better specced at a later date, with a risk it simply spreads into larger machines.
I donít know if anyone has called Pat Bulcock and asked if he will do Pedal/buttons or not?


Where the running your business with some finance, having exclusive agreements with clients, blowing smoke up your arse on social media, dictating to people, not sounding right, and just being a complete twat come into that I donít know. No need to dress it up for me, been called worse by better men on here sadly gone, but were totally respected for it as theyíd been in the game an awful long time.


UK, the only place the Ferrari Dealers still have a Cross ply Tyres box on the options sheet! Black, round, ok for 70mph, why wouldnít you?


Iíll do my thing, everyone else can do exactly as they please, and when it comes to actually buying a Tilty Unit, of which so few of the loudest shouters on here actually do, Iíll be heading for the suppliers who are driving the concept forward.


Eddie.
Hell its not rocket science, everyone understands what youíre saying, and yes, most can appreciate the probable implications for residuals. The fact remains though, that some people are happy with simpler setups, and most do have to carefully consider cost and payback. Certainly, Iím not trying to make a judgement either way, Iím just saying everyoneís circumstances are different. Clearly, Engcon think thereís a market for cheaper setups; theyíve identified a demand, and the customer is always right, even if theyíre wrong!
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